Every Sunday for the duration of our The End of Faith vs. The Purpose Driven Life duel, the Christian Missionary da and I will exchange a question on Sunday.The question da has posed for today is: If you were on your deathbed, would you repent and ask Christ for forgiveness - just in case?
This is a great question. The answer, of course, is "no" because to do so would be disingenuous. Anyone who relies on Pascal's Wager to support their faith in God is a hypocrite. First of all, how do you profess belief in something you don't believe? How do you love someone who tells you: love me or I'll send you to hell. I'm sorry - I just don't get it.
This question reminds me of a great quote from Alan Watts that answers a question that has puzzled me for some time: Do most Christians really believe all that they profess to believe? This was Watts' answer:
"I return to the point that clergy and people of the church do not really believe at all in God in the old-fashioned sense of the word. If they did seriously believe the Christian religion in its orthodox form, they would be screaming in the street. But even the Jehovah's witnesses are more or less polite when they come and call at your house. If they really believed that you were going to hell, they would make a bigger fuss about you than if you had the bubonic plague. But nobody really takes Christianity that seriously anymore, because they do not believe in it. They know they ought to believe in it. In fact many sermons are exhortations to have more faith, which means that we all recognize that we do not really believe it, but we ought to. We feel very guilty about it, but we do not have the moral strength to believe in this. However, it is not only a matter of moral strength. It is a matter of being asked to believe in something that most people feel is nonsense, which is the world is run on the lines of a state. How can you be a citizen of the United States, having taken an oath that a republican form of government is the best form of government, and believe that the universe is a monarchy?" [my emphasis - from Watts' Myth and Religion, chapter entitled Democracy in the Kingdom of Heaven]
Christopher Hitchens has also written and spoken brilliantly on the totalitarian underpinning of Christianity. So, again, I do not expect to repent on my deathbed. In the unlikely event that God exists and the Bible is His word, I want no part of his totalitarian state.
My question for da today is twofold: Are you willing to admit that there is a possibility that there is no God or life after death and that the miraculous events described in the Bible are myths? If you are willing to admit such a possibility, how would your life change if it were true?
I did a video asking the same question.
ReplyDeleteOne more thing. You should join the atheist blog roll.
ReplyDeleteJust follow the instruction here.
Baconeater, I love it. Just submitted it to reddit and I am going to post it here.
ReplyDeleteBaconeater, I'm listed on the atheist blogroll - two below The Atheist Jew. I just find that I have too much on my sidebars right now to add that lengthy blogroll. I'm a bit of a luddite (that's an understatement) - am I supposed to insert some kind of tag so that my updates make it to their site?
ReplyDeleteI don't think that God is asking you to love Him or else He'll send you to hell.
ReplyDelete"I take no delight in the death of the wicked. So turn from your sin and be saved."
God is simply asking you to agree with Him that you need forgiveness of your sins. When a person realises that truth of this and accepts a forgiveness that is not deserved, that is when "our love for Him because He first loved us" enters into the picture.
As far as pleading with you to repent and be saved, or as you put it, "Screaming in the streets," What more could a person say to you? You've heard it all and rejected it all. I think most people in North America erroneously believe that there is no one left on the continent who hasn't heard the way of salvation so what else is there to do? That at least is my excuse.
Makarios,
ReplyDeleteYou clearly believe what the bible says - goes. Do you understand how difficult it is for TAM to accept you quoting something out of it? The bible has zero credibility as a proof of god, or his word for that matter.
You'd think he'd just directly talk to everyone rather than conveniently selecting some human messenger boys.
Back to the route of your response however, you have it wrong. You are well aware that although blunt, and perhaps a bit crude, what TAM said was correct. If you don't love him, you are going to hell. What kind of god would do this?
According to the idea of repent, Adolf Hitler would stand a better chance of getting into heaven if he repented before dying, than some bush pygmy who dies without ever being introduced to the concept of your god, hence not believing in it.
God says: "Love me or I´ll send you to hell"
ReplyDeleteGreat sentence to think about.
Problem is: God does not say this anywhere. He does not ask anybody to love him. "Accept my gift or I´ll send you to hell" is more accurate. No need for forced love. It is like you parked on a forbidden spot. Policeman comes and tells you to pay the fine...UNLESS: you accept him to pay for you. No need to love this weirdo policemen. Just accept the gift and drive away. Some "Thanks officer" would be nice, though.
Rabhimself: I watched your video. I have no trouble in thinking of what would be if some definitiv proof would arise demonstrating the non-existence of God. What would I do? Lie, spend less time with my family, when they get on my nerves beat them, spend more time for me, have an affair with the women next door, get drunk, eventually accept the divorce my wife presents me, start a new family...basically the things I see in thousands and thousands of homes around me. Though I wouldn´t put a cat in the microwave, must taste horrible. I guess I failed your test then, sorry.
Honestly: I admire you guys, having such high moral standars just for the sake of it? Bible says men is evil from birth. But you? You don´t lie, don´t cheat on your wife with that hot brunette secretary, treat your kids with love, never hold back any taxes...I definitely want to know more about what drives you.
Da: good thing you said "hot brunette secretary" - I have a feeling that AM has a certain affinity for blondes.
ReplyDeleteThat was a great question that you posed. Wouldn't it be interesting if we could test the percentage of those who answer "no" to your question and are healthy with the percentage of those who answer "no" and are terminally ill.
Da,
ReplyDeleteThe fact that you honestly think that without god you would do such horrible things as you listed is rather disturbing.
That being said, i have stated my concern about how genuine you are in another thread. I still think some things you say can be interpreted to be satirical, and this list of wrong doings, followed by saying that you still wouldn't microwave a cat despite doing the other bad things have deepened my initial concern.
Da, i'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and ask you outright - Are you being serious with everything you present?
'Though I wouldn´t put a cat in the microwave, must taste horrible. I guess I failed your test then.'
As for what drives us da, it is simpy in your nature to do these things. God is not necessary, to imply he is is frightening.
On the satire issue, i think im picking some things up as satirical, because to be quote frank, some things you say are utterly ridiculous and compound TAM's belief and mine that you are extremely deluded. So basically, you ae having a laugh, or you are so deep in the realm of delusion i don't think you can be pulled back.
Your analogy with the policeman and the parking fine illustrate the above. How you could possibly think that is beyond me.
P.S. I'm not trying to offend you, some people just bewilder me with how strong their faith, and hence delusion is. Also, i made no videos, i brought one to TAM's attention which he then put on the blog.