Tuesday, January 12, 2010

Great logic Bono



This is the compelling logic relied on by U2 frontman and humanitarian Bono when asked whether he thought it was far-fetched to believe that Jesus was the Son of God:

"No, it's not farfetched to me. Look, the secular response to the Christ story always goes like this: he was a great prophet, obviously a very interesting guy, had a lot to say along the lines of other great prophets, be they Elijah, Muhammad, Buddha, or Confucius. But actually Christ doesn't allow you that. He doesn't let you off that hook. Christ says: No. I'm not saying I'm a teacher, don't call me teacher. I'm not saying I'm a prophet. I'm saying: "I'm the Messiah. I'm saying: "I am God incarnate. And people say: No, no, please, just be a prophet. A prophet, we can take. You're a bit eccentric. We've had John the Baptist eating locusts and wild honey, we can handle that. But don't mention the "M word! Because, you know, we're gonna have to crucify you. And he goes: No, no. I know you're expecting me to come back with an army, and set you free from these creeps, but actually I am the Messiah. At this point, everyone starts staring at their shoes, and says: Oh, my God, he's gonna keep saying this. So what you're left with is: either Christ was who He said He was”the Messiah”or a complete nutcase. I mean, we're talking nutcase on the level of Charles Manson ... This man was strapping himself to a bomb, and had "King of the Jews" on his head, and, as they were putting him up on the Cross, was going: OK, martyrdom, here we go. Bring on the pain! I can take it. I'm not joking here. The idea that the entire course of civilization for over half of the globe could have its fate changed and turned upside-down by a nutcase, for me, that's farfetched.

Bono and I obviously differ on the definition of the term "farfetched".

10 comments:

  1. I give Paul Hewson a lot of credit for his philanthropic efforts, particularly in Africa, and his leadership among celebrities to raise awareness of AIDS and the Keep a Child Alive campaign.

    Having said that, there is a certain element of these celebrity movements (not so much Bono, but more the likes of Brad Pitt and his sidekick) that has been very detrimental to African nations. The Jolies of Hollywood do not believe in truly working with grassroots organizations in places like Tanzania and Nigeria. The result is that sub-saharan Africa has become totally dependent on foreign handouts. That was never the idea, or at least should not have been. It is not sustainable and makes no economic sense. The cult of celebrity can be dangerous.

    As for Paul's religious beliefs, what do you expect? This guy called the late Pope a "streetfighter" for the poor. Apparently, he never visited Rome.
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  2. Civilization is always being disrupted by nutcases, why would Jesus be farfetched? Most of the civilizational change was gradual and over a comparatively long timeframe.
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  3. I love that arugment; either Jesus was a god or he was crazy!

    Okay, he was crazy.

    Done.
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  4. This seems like some sort of very distorted version of the Trilemma. The Trillemma is a bad argument to start with, gets worse when it gets thrown in by crappy apologists. Bono seems to have managed to make it even stupider.
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  5. The totally depressing bit is the last part.

    "The idea that the entire course of civilization for over half of the globe could have its fate changed and turned upside-down by a nutcase, for me, that's farfetched."

    It's not that far-fetched and quite probably true. What's even more depressing is that Jesus probably never existed. I use the word depressing in my esteem of the human race.
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  6. The idea that the entire course of civilization for over half of the globe could have its fate changed and turned upside-down by a nutcase," is what we call "history".
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  7. Larro, the fact that Jesus probably never existed is far from depressing. I don't know what's depressing about that. It's like getting depressed after finding out that Santa Claus is a myth. Come on.
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  8. "The idea that the entire course of history for the whole globe could have its fate changed and turned upside-down by a nutcase with a mustache in 1930's Germany, for me, that's farfetched."

    You could substitute any one of innumerable other tipping points to show the fallacy of Bono's logic.
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  9. Hitler wasn't a nutcase, he wasn't claiming to be the son of God, and he didn't willingly face death when he could have easily avoided it for a cause.

    When Jesus said he was the son of God, he knew that an horrific death awaited him. He could have recanted and gotten off scot-free but didn't. In other words, he walked into death willingly for a cause. And Jesus did exist, even most secular scholars agree on this.

    Look, I'm not saying that anyone should believe that he was the son of god, believe in his miracles or indeed anything of the sort. We know some things: He did exist and he was a good man. If you actually read what Jesus said in the bible it's powerful, good, moral teachings.

    Get angry at the people, churches and institutions that claim to represent him ( make loads of mistakes and do bad things), not he himself. At the very worst he's a good man who claimed to be something he's not. The religion he created has messed up a lot, but if they'd actually stuck to his moral teachings they wouldn't have. But they didn't.

    So rather than attack his principles or anything else (and he did probably exist, btw) attack the churches who've claimed to represent him, but make sure there's always a distinction.

    Am I telling you to convert? No, of course it's right to be sceptical about the son of god claim. I'm just sick of smug, pseudo-intellectual atheists talking crap about Christianity when most of its teachings, and all of those from Jesus, are very good. The things that have been done in its name are bad.
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  10. I'm not saying that anyone should believe that he was the son of god, believe in his miracles or indeed anything of the sort.

    Then you have no argument from me.
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